Vanessa and Casper explore the theme of Honesty in chapter twenty-one of Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix. This week, Vanessa and Casper are joined by Nora McInerny, the host of one of our favorite podcasts: Terrible, Thanks for Asking. We discuss Ron’s bro-iness, Harry’s kiss with Cho, and the Thestrals as witnesses of grief. Our question this week is: When is honesty actually the best policy?

This week’s voicemail is thanks to Ricker Bailey. Next week we're reading chapter twenty-two, St. Mungo’s Hospital for Magical Maladies and Injuries, through the theme of Distance.